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Post by The One Rob on Mar 23, 2010 18:39:55 GMT -8
Bonaparte,
The timetable for the attack on Windsor is not negotiable, certain things have been set in motion many months ago that require a certain amount of movement to keep up with the overall regional strategy.
We are not short on resources, and I believe we can keep the offensive up against Windsor, while still allocating some time on intelligence gathering against the others we have spoken of.
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Post by Vito on Mar 23, 2010 19:01:30 GMT -8
Rob, I do understand what the plan is; I support the sect and will do what I am asked. Doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with the decision.
~Bonaparte
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Kale
Full Member
Posts: 205
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Post by Kale on Mar 23, 2010 19:45:32 GMT -8
I completely agree with you, or I would if it had not been sanctioned by both Bishops and later the Priscus did not object. wAIT, SO THE EXTERMINATION OF AN ENTIRE PACK WAS SANCTIONED AND ACTED UPON BY MERE bISHOPS(WHO HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO DO SO, i MIGHT ADD)? aND YOU ONLY TALKED TO THE pRISCUS after THE FACT? hAHAHA, WAY TO GO zIGGY! tHAT TAKES SOME BALLS!
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Post by Wade Garrett on Mar 24, 2010 2:14:23 GMT -8
Hello all,
Since everyone else is chiming in here, I saw no reason not to offer my own two cents, as well.
Kale, as someone else who was present at said violent event, I can testify to you that the Bishops did indeed confer with the Voice of the Archbishop before choosing to act on anything. As to what decisions were made, I will not choose to put any words into the mouths of any of this city's leadership. They are all more than capable of speaking for themselves.
In the meantime, no one present at that conflict suffered Final Death, and to my knowledge there weren't even any extended torpors. Stacey has found the energy to offer his opinions on these forums, just as he has in the past. There has been a mandatory call for all of Detroit's cainites to present themselves at this coming Esbat. I have no doubt that any grievances from any recognized party, whether they be political, personal, or otherwise, will have the opportunity to be aired.
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Post by Silky O'Sullivan on Mar 24, 2010 13:07:37 GMT -8
To Jack Loveless: For the love of G-d stop using that damned blue font!
To Kale: I was not present for Esbatslam that took place last Esbat. I had a previous engagement that I cleared with the Voice of the Archbishop prior to the Esbat, but I do wish I had been there.
I haven’t spoken much in the last few weeks, and in my silence I’ve had the chance to see what has happened much more clearly than if I had. I see now that the caustic ingredients of infernalism and mistrust have caused our proverbial pot to boil over. The importance of “intent” for the attack on the Bad News Bears pack has been raised in my discussions about the Esbat, and whether or not Cainites intended to kill them and failed or simply intended to beat them down as tempers flared. Obviously tempers flared, and the Bad News Bears pack was the sect’s focus for that aggression. In my eyes, the attack happened and, regardless of intent, no Cainite was killed. As was mentioned previously, we are the Sabbat and beat downs occur when tempers flare, so long as they do not result in Final Death.
As Bonaparte started to point out in “his” thread there are members of the Bad News Bears pack that are not culpable for the burning of havens and other attacks that I am unaware of, yet they must have occurred to garner a general antipathy for them by the general populace. I fear for these Cainites as they are sect members and, due to their unfortunate circumstance of pack affiliation, are probably fearful for their very existence among their own sect. I have quoted the Code of Milan in my posts, and I will once again offer a suggestion that is taken from there. Statute Five states that “All Sabbat shall treat their peers fairly and equally, upholding the strength and unity of the Sabbat. If necessary, they shall provide for the needs of their brethren.” Statute Six continues, “All Sabbat must put the good of the sect and the race of Cainites before their own personal needs, despite all costs.”
I cannot say with certainty that, if I was a member of the Bad News Bears pack and maintained a strong viniculum to my pack mates, that I would not defend their actions even if they were wrong. I cannot also say with certainty that I would not aid my pack mates when they asked for my help; even if I knew what they were doing was wrong. For those Cainites who did burn down havens and possibly expose our secret hiding places to our sect-enemies (sectnemies?), I am sure there will be repercussions. As for the others in Bad News Bears pack whose only crime is a shared membership in pack, I hope we can find a way to have them participate in city Vaulderie and gather ourselves closer and tighter together in unity of our sect. The pot has boiled over and now we have to do what we can to build ourselves back up, and even stronger than before.
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stacey
Full Member
Former Archbishop of Detroit
Posts: 111
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Post by stacey on Mar 25, 2010 7:15:44 GMT -8
You said "We are allowing those of little status dictate to those that are proven. Because of this we were talked into jumping our own sect mate for walking in on a meeting. Which is his Caine given right." I completely agree with you, or I would if it had not been sanctioned by both Bishops and later the Priscus did not object. The Priscus did not object? Do you know how many things the Priscus does not object to because they don't even show up on his radar? A lack of objection by a Priscus (or anyone else for that matter) is not the same as approval. It doesn't really validate any action. And then entire point of the comment was that the Bishops sanctioned that action based on information no one had ever met before. That's generally a very poor decision, especially when you have no way to verify their information. Lastly, for those of you who just are curious. I think highly of Stacey and his triumphs in our city. He cares deeply about the future of this city and to see him attacked very stupidly, in my opinion, upsets me greatly. As for the actions of his pack mates that is on them. I do not hold one accountable for the others actions. The Bad News Bears overall are one of the strongest packs in our city and are great soldiers for our sect. It angered me to see an attack on those I considered to be my allies. Well thank you for the compliment, but that doesn't mean much right now. I've told Bonaparte this and I'll say it to the rest of the city as well. This city has never been concerned for its well-being or its safety. It is concerned with popularity and comfort. It is junior high all over again. Do I blame anyone? Of couse not. The city has never been faced with a serious and PRESENT threat to its Cainites. You sit back on your laurels and think that someone's personal attitude towards someone else is a reason to have them killed off. But if or when you start being faced with a real threat, when you have enemies dusting you off left and right, then you'll wish the BNB were around. You'll want a strong pack. From what I saw from the city last gathering, you'll need a strong pack. But since you haven't faced that kind of threat, you have the luxury of playing politics like good little Camarilla clones and manufacturing excuses to get rid of people you don't like. But if it keeps you from pissing away the city, I'll come down to your level and play too. But don't get all mad and upset if I do that better too. (Edit: Actually, there was one time when the city was presented with a serious and very present threat. It is when the current Archbishop came in and declared that he was taking over the city. At the time he was the city's primary enemy in its war with Venere. But when it came time for Cainites of Detroit to step up and risk their own necks to protect their city, everyone flinched. Not a single person stepped up. And even afterwards, the only person that even tried to do anything against the takeover of the city was Antonio Genovese.)
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Post by Camille on Mar 25, 2010 8:53:22 GMT -8
Not many were sad to see the previous Archbishop go, so not many investigated his disappearance. Not many in this city, liked Antonio, so he got killed and only those in his pack really investigated. Not many in this City like you Stacey, or the BNB for that matter, outside of your pack, so you got beat down. No one even objected to the idea. They all seemed to think that it was entirely possible, plausible even, that the BNB were all involved in something that deserved a beat down. Why did they go along with the plan so readily? Oh, yes because you haven't made any friends or allies that would bother to defend you, even your own pack ran and left you there to get beat.
Some advice... Make some friends, or at the very least allies. Sure it means you have to help them out and aid their causes but it's never a bad thing to have someone who is willing stand up and defend your actions to a mob that wants your blood. The Black Hand was the first and only one to defend you, maybe if you were a bit nicer to your brethren in this city you wouldn't have this problem.
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stacey
Full Member
Former Archbishop of Detroit
Posts: 111
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Post by stacey on Mar 25, 2010 17:53:28 GMT -8
Fuck you and your shitty advice Camille. You're the last person anyone should be taking advice from. People don't have to like me. I don't care if everyone hates me. Because the Sabbat is not a popularity contest. Detroit might be a popularity contest - at the moment - but the Sabbat as a whole is not. That would be the Camarilla. The Sabbat is about what you can do, not who you are.
But you should know this just as well as I do. Cause whether you realize it or not, you're not liked very much in this city either. Everyone pretty much agrees you're a whiny, annoying bitch. And you're only tolerated cause you're not dangerous at all. I don't have that luxury. It comes with being very Feared many times over. When you show up, people think for some reason they're about to die. Even your own allies.
You think that incident served some sort of humility? You would be that dumb. You think we didn't know what was going to happen when we went in there? We went in there voluntarily knowing that bad things might happen. Why? Because we knew we had done nothing wrong. And we were even asked at the door if we had anything to do with the fires. But even after being told we didn't, you still didn't want to talk. Cause it wasn't about fires. I know that, you know that, and everyone else does too. That's fine perfectly fine though. The point is: that incident happened because we allowed it to happen. I instructed the rest of my pack to get the hell out of dodge if shit got started and told them SPECIFICALLY:
Don't attack back. (Except against you cause you don't merit the respect.)
Do I EVER go anywhere unarmed? But when I walked into that warehouse, I didn't have a single weapon on me. I didn't have any armor on me. You will know this because the guy I talked to at the door (the fangy guy with the funny hat) checked. Did I know the rest of the city was there? Of course. Did I have to go in there - even to find out what was going on? No, of course not. I could have sat comfortably and scried the entire meeting from a safe distance. But I didn't. I went in. And I would have gone in by myself to take whatever you had. But Jacob and Wes insisted on going with me because of the principle of the matter. That's what real Sabbat do for their warrior brothers.
And when I stood there and took what all of you dished out, did I attack any of you back? (Well, yes, you, but I already addressed that point and I keep my shadowy pimp hand strong.) I even hung around and stayed in there much longer than I could have, just to let you get your shots in. I could have been out of there before in a matter of seconds, but I wasn't. So if you think that I somehow got put in my place because thirteen or so people attempted to surprise me when I had no weapons and did not fight back or leave as quickly as I could have, it is only because you really don't understand my place. But I don't expect you to. Not because you're an idiot, which you are, but because you don't have enough information to understand my place.
And just to note, the BNB have ALWAYS been ready, willing, and able to help out any pack in the city. And in many, MANY cases we have. And not for your petty tit-for-tat, I'll-help-you-cause-you're-my-friend bullshit. That mentality is so fucked up it makes me sick, you Cammy cunt. The BNB will help ANYONE to get shit done in this city -just like they did for for Alexial's pack against the werewolf even though we HATED her. Cause whether I like you or not, we're Sabbat. And regardless of whether anyone else in this city feels the same way, the BNB still operate under that philosophy - unprovoked attacks or not.
So fuck your advice. I'm sure that shit will go over really nice in Windsor, though. You guys would get along quite well.
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thesteve
Full Member
Assistant Storyteller/Turbo-Charged, Cow-Pounding, Sexual Powerhouse!!!
Posts: 125
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Post by thesteve on Mar 25, 2010 19:16:35 GMT -8
Stacey, it's common knowledge that the bad news bears have done nothing for this city.
Ever.
ILm sure our Beloved archbishop Hawthorne can attest to that.
Further, I know we're all excited to begin the siege of windsor, but we don't have any intel, or even a thought of where to start!
Count how many bits of sarcasm and lies I just tossed out there.
Each one something that would be true, were it not for the GANGSTA cainites of the Bad News Bears.
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thesteve
Full Member
Assistant Storyteller/Turbo-Charged, Cow-Pounding, Sexual Powerhouse!!!
Posts: 125
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Post by thesteve on Mar 25, 2010 19:25:28 GMT -8
Oh yeah! I forgot about our war with montreal and atlanta!
How many cainites lives were spared thanks to their mitigation of THAT situaation?
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Post by Camille on Mar 25, 2010 19:32:52 GMT -8
Hey look, another WALL of text from Stacey. Is anyone surprised?
Whatever Stacey, you're going to do what you want, you always do. I'm starting to wonder why I ever bothered trying to be civil with you. I had hopes that you might learn from that experience but I guess you haven't.
Please for the sake of everyone reading these boards, try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence of your intelligence, or lack thereof, will still be available to readers but they will be able to access it more rapidly. Please just spare us your drivel and let us function in peace without fear of having to read your seemingly endless supply of colorful insults and arrogant self righteous bullshit.
Oh yes, by the way, Fuck you too you corpse-fucking, vainglorious, prick.
Wow! That felt almost as good as shooting you.
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Post by Camille on Mar 25, 2010 19:41:01 GMT -8
The BNB have done plenty for this city, I never said they haven't. Never said I'm not thankful for what they have done for the city. They are very useful and great in a fight, I've said so in the boards, several times. This one is just an asshole who talks way too much shit and thinks he's better than everyone in this city.
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Post by The One Rob on Mar 25, 2010 20:04:36 GMT -8
Oh yeah! I forgot about our war with montreal and atlanta! How many cainites lives were spared thanks to their mitigation of THAT situaation? Many.
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thesteve
Full Member
Assistant Storyteller/Turbo-Charged, Cow-Pounding, Sexual Powerhouse!!!
Posts: 125
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Post by thesteve on Mar 25, 2010 20:21:18 GMT -8
Camille,
Challenge Stacey to Monomacy, or SHUT THE FUCK UP!! FUCK!
Stacey,
You have valid reason to be pissed. But christ, man. Challenge her to monomacy and shut her fucking mouth permanently. Please.
Church
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Post by Vito on Mar 25, 2010 20:52:38 GMT -8
Camille,
Why are YOU of all people complaining about Stacey's wall of text? Thats the pot calling the kettle black. You don't get that right. I also enjoy your insights as much as I enjoy sunlight, so please can YOU edit your post to maybe one instead of two or three different post? There are called paragraphs you use the enter bar to make them.
See I did it there to show you that you have that ability. Well maybe YOU don't. Also why would YOU spend all that energy writing about friendship? In a previous post in this very thread I clearly stated my respect for him. That was telling me that apparently YOU don't bother to read my threads. That hurt my feelings. I think I might even have a tear. YOU made me cry.
I think I'm going to have YOUR zoo shut down for some type of health and safety reasons, have the animals moved to a new zoo being built not that far a way by your old Ductus. I'll make sure that it gets prime news coverage and create a public outcry for its removal. Then I think I'll have YOUR zoo condemned and make sure it goes to bankrupt. I'll buy the property at a reduced cost and kick you out of your haven, within a month or so.
I'll also have you registered as a sex offender: LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS ACTS WITH CHILD UNDER 14 YEARS, LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS ACTS WITH CHILD UNDER 14 YEARS W/FORCE, CONTINUOUS SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILD. I'll also add in your current face or whatever face you put on and put in that you skipped your court hearing. That will put a warrant out for your arrest. Again I will make sure its a top story.
That will make me feel better. I'll even do it in the name of friendship. But do not feel bad I will find somewhere for your pack to go. I hear Montreal is nice this time of year.
What don't think I can? Test me. I do not play nice; just ask your priest friend.
~Bonaparte
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