stacey
Full Member
Former Archbishop of Detroit
Posts: 111
|
Post by stacey on Mar 7, 2010 16:10:47 GMT -8
For those of you who give their word lightly and don't plan on keeping that pledge, please understand that just because you don't plan on keeping your end of the deal doesn't mean that the deal just evaporates. Whatever ending or starting terms were negotiated in the deal come back into play, effective immediately. For a completely hypothetical example: Let's say you make a deal with someone not to kill you (because you killed and diablerized the Archbishop you swore allegiance to in order to take his place closer to Charles VI) in exchange for keeping certain information private. If you later make that information public once you're released, that doesn't mean you still get to live just because you've already been let go. If the deal is: keep secret = you live... Then: don't keep secret = you don't live.
How anyone could be so daft as to not get that is beyond me.
On a completely unrelated note, what was all the fuss about at the end of the last gathering?
|
|
|
Post by brotherjeremy on Mar 8, 2010 20:28:06 GMT -8
Just my Hummer Exploding with me inside and the Bishop. I praise Caine for my Fortitude or I would surely be dead.
|
|
|
Post by beresford on Mar 10, 2010 17:29:04 GMT -8
While I completely agree with your point that a deal is a deal. One should always keep his/her word and honor agreements. But I find it interesting that this lesson in honor is being given by one who chose not to participate in the vaulderie.
|
|
stacey
Full Member
Former Archbishop of Detroit
Posts: 111
|
Post by stacey on Mar 10, 2010 18:43:16 GMT -8
Well, "beresford" you may find it interesting, but then again, your knowledge regarding the specifics of the situation (regarding that vaulderie and the tasks I was assigned that evening) amounts to jack shit so your definition of 'interesting' isn't nearly as droll as you make it out to be. So take my word for it (or don't and dig yourself a very deep hole to be buried in): Don't run your fucking mouth about shit until you know everything about it. And since what you DON'T know could fill the Grand fucking Canyon, let me shorten my advice to you as such: Don't run your fucking mouth.
You want to question my honor? I'll be more than happy to give you the answer to your question the next time I see you.
|
|
|
Post by Silky O'Sullivan on Mar 10, 2010 22:38:10 GMT -8
You see, my friend Beresford, that its the one with the guilty conscience that speaks the loudest; falling on deaf ears, I hope. Anyone unwilling to share their blood with the sect is not deserving of honor. You are very quick to explode in response to Beresford, but I wonder if, perhaps, his gentle maneuvering has struck a nerve?
|
|
|
Post by jacobwesley on Mar 11, 2010 0:05:09 GMT -8
Y'all Callin my boy out? If you are, then throw down, if not, then Statler and Waldorf your asses back to the peanut gallery. We don't need spurious accusations and innuendo dividng the sect. We are not the fucking Cam. I am way big on bleeding in the cup, its part of what makes us sabbat. But if I for one second questioned my boy's loyalty, we'd deal with that where it belongs, in the pack. There are always reasons, and some are hidden. But you insult the pack to suggest one of our memebers is not on the ups.
|
|
|
Post by ooc... on Mar 11, 2010 0:29:17 GMT -8
You see, my friend Beresford, that its the one with the guilty conscience that speaks the loudest; falling on deaf ears, I hope. Anyone unwilling to share their blood with the sect is not deserving of honor. You are very quick to explode in response to Beresford, but I wonder if, perhaps, his gentle maneuvering has struck a nerve? See, the problem here "ilky" is again, like the man said... your not up on all the facts.... so be mindful, and careful, where you decide to point a finger, or corner for blame, cuz, like the travesty that occurred at the end of last Esbat, non of us in this city, are safe or protected by false impression of codes, or honor. War is at the city's gates, and up its ass, and we are all in the thick of it... So instead of playing some Cam soap box political, semantics game, why don't you get with the program, and start being a little more noticeably proactive in your endeavors.. 1st- We may know, or we may not know, but to clear it, up, state who you roll with in this city, as in who's your pack? 2- Give us some idea of what your capable of, what you've accomplished, and where your going with your end of the weight that needs to be pulled in this city.. 3- If you have anything constructive to say, please feel free to sprinkle any enlightenments on here, that would be appreciated. Your obviously bored, and looking to make a name for yourself in this city, by questioning things in which you obviously have no fucking clue about... I wish you good luck... Stacey is a competent soldier, and I've shared ranks with him on many a raid, a fight, a cause. Your more than welcome to step to the "fucking mouth" you seem to have a problem handling, and he'll cordially coordinate a proper place for it... So keep it going... Last bit of advice... When you've found yourself bent in half like a pretzel, and your contemplating how fancy the inside of ass looks, your perspective might change, and you might think back to a time before you opened that uninformed cum dumpster you were talking outta, and realize you had better things to do in the city, than interject. When that happens, you can come talk to me, or any of the BNB in the city, and we'll have an " I TOLD YOU SO" button waiting... were printin em now, specially for you....
|
|
|
Post by Camille on Mar 11, 2010 7:28:32 GMT -8
I'm just curious, jacobwesley, what happened to...
"Either you bleed in the bowl or you do not. Only difference between a man and a dog is blood in a bowl."
I don't mean to throw your words in your face but... You did say them, just recently in fact... Right?
|
|
|
Post by jacobwesley on Mar 11, 2010 13:43:44 GMT -8
Whistles casually. My oh my, camarilla camile is coming to score some points off ole' Jake Wesley. She figured out all on her own that I put a lot of stake in the ritae, and yet i am givin my boy a free pass. She isn't quite up to usin the words hypocrite, but she does nicely point out that she is not throwin words in my face. Of course she is not being snarky, camarilla would never do that, she is just asking a question all polite like. Well I got a question too, are you saying I am stupid or are you just not seeing the subtle colors through all of my el-o-fucking-quence? You see I can read, they do educate us these days, and I am not so old that alzheimers has taken my memory. So lets just pretend for one moment that I actually know what I am fucking saying. Which leaves us with two choices. One is that I am a hypocrite, in which case do YOU REALLY FUCKING BELIEVE THAT I GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT YOUR THINLY VEILED ASSERTION THAT I AM HYPOCRITE? Or, arguendo, I might just actually BE comtitted to the ritae, and if I, of all people, give my boy a fucking pass on the bowl, then there is a goddamned good reason that benefits the whole fucking city. Now if we look at my words in detail, which you, camarilla, obviously love to do, we see that I said in my second missive: "I am way big on bleeding into the cup, its part of what makes us sabbat. But If I for one second questioned my boys loyalty we would deal with that...in the pack." Now does this suggest that old jake is talking out of both sides of his ass, or does it seem to say that there was a good reason for why the rite was skipped? Dunno, but I pick the latter. Now if you want to still call me a hypocrite because I am changing my tune, that is fine, come out and do it, and back it up. Or go back and get some reading glasses, and do something useful with your pretty mouth that does not involve words coming out.
|
|
|
Post by Silky O'Sullivan on Mar 11, 2010 18:38:00 GMT -8
To Wes, Stacey, and anyone else feeling slighted by our public notation of the lack of presence at the previous Vaulderie ritae;
You confuse me. I stated previously that I am new to the city, but I am certainly not new to the Sabbat. Threats and taunts aside, I can admire your passion to defend a member of your pack, though not the escalation to threats. I am also not playing a “Cam soap box political, semantics game”; I’m doing what any honorable and faithful Sabbat member would do in this situation. I’ll repeat statute fourteen of the Code of Milan that states that all Sabbat have the right to monitor the behavior and activities of their fellow sect members in order to maintain freedom and security. What I do, I do in service to the Sect. I’ve read over this private forum and it seems that you have no qualms about pointing out every other sect member’s issues, which is your right. However, when it comes to other sect members pointing out yours, as is their right; well, you immediately start in with the threats. That seems more Camarilla-like than you may have realized.
We don’t get to choose which part of the Code to follow and which to ignore. I don’t care if any of you who chose to not participate in the Vaulderie had a good personal reason or not, because there is no good reason. The Code, statute three states that all Sabbat faithfully observe all the auctoritas ritae, and statute six that all Sabbat put the good of the sect and the race of Cainites before their own personal needs, despite all costs.
You say that I am not up on all of my facts? Fine, you’re right; I don’t know why Stacey or the members of the Nameless were not in attendance for the Vaulderie. Why don’t you tell us, then? Educate us. What was more important than the auctoritas ritae?
Honor is more than just a word, more than just a social trait to be swung around like a tool for your benefit. Status is an important part of the Sabbat structure, and anyone expecting others to acknowledge their status is held to a standard; that standard is the Code of Milan. A long list of past deeds means little in the face of tonight’s needs. Deliberately withdrawing from Vaulderie and even defending such an act is dangerous, it’s ignorant of our ways as Sabbat, gives other sect members reason to find you untrustworthy, and even vain. You cannot expect to use the Code when it suits you, and at other times ignore it when it does not. If other sect members call you on it, and your response is immediately a threat, then it only gives us more reason to question and monitor them.
|
|
|
Post by Camille on Mar 11, 2010 19:47:21 GMT -8
Thank you Silky, it's so nice to hear logic from fellow Sabbat in this City! I had so much that I was going to say in response but he seems to have plucked the words right out of my head and posted them for me, there was only a couple things he missed.
Really? Name calling? How juvenile.
When Stacey told me at last Esbat (I asked him personally) why he wasn't at the Vaulderie, he told me that he had business to attend to, I believed him, and didn't press the matter further. The reason for my post was curiosity, I tried to avoid calling anyone a hypocrite because I was sure there was a logical reason why he mysteriously vanished right before the Vaulderie began. He was literally there one minute and gone the next, that's bound to turn a few heads, especially when we have all heard him say MANY TIMES how important Ritae is. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who is curious where he went and to many perception is reality, not everyone is as willing as I am to simply trust that he had more important places to be.
Tell me, What is more important than Ritae? I'd love to hear that one.
Before I was just curious but I was going to drop the subject on Stacey's word alone because we've been getting along a tiny bit better lately and I wanted to encourage that dynamic between us. Now, with your terribly defensive attitude, I'm beginning to wonder where he went during the Vaulderie, or more importantly what he did, and to whom.
That would be the perfect time to.... Oh, I don't know..... put a bomb in a Bishops car.
Okay, I don't really think he would do that but you can see how it looks questionable right? Especially after all that loud, defensive, name calling.
|
|
|
Post by Camille on Mar 11, 2010 20:01:26 GMT -8
Oh, by the way, my "pretty mouth" won't EVER be doing anything for you Jacob.
|
|
|
Post by Wade Garrett on Mar 11, 2010 21:34:16 GMT -8
How fascinating you all are. I look forward to meeting each of you in person. I've only just arrived in the city and already I'm being given pages and pages of complex cainite behavior being displayed all over this site.
One person misses a vaulderie and suddenly everyone is up in arms. Uses of Sabbat tenets as a legal argument lead to furious defense and sexual harassment on the part of a packmate lead to implications of assassination and generally emasculating commentary leads to who knows what else? As we all seem to be (theoretically) immortal, this could go on literally forever.
As I'm sure someone is about to say something along the lines of "who the fuck are you," I'll cut to the chase. My name is Jack. Jack Loveless. Just another wandering soul showing up in this most tumultuous of cities, looking to make my mark.
With that out of the way, I'm pleased to make all of your acquaintances, and I look forward to seeing what the next response is in this little drama.
|
|
|
Post by Camille on Mar 11, 2010 22:13:00 GMT -8
I hate to be anticlimactic but hello there. I actually like your take on the situation, it is small in the grand scheme of things, some like to make a mountain out of a molehill. I was curious, as I've heard many are, but their reaction alone has made me wonder what they're up to. I was ready to drop the subject at last Esbat but now...
Some of the Cainites in this city think that the one with the loudest voice and the most colorful insults wins.
I look forward to meeting you Jack.
|
|
|
Post by jacobwesley on Mar 12, 2010 0:33:00 GMT -8
Looks down at his hands idly shuffling a deck of cards. [color=Green Yes, name calling is juvenile, but then again its also fun. What the fuck good does it do to live forever if you are constrained by the dictates of what others define as mature. there is sort of a brilliant liberation in saying what ever you want without regard to consequence. You didn't try to avoid calling me a hypocrite, you all but did it. I'm a straightforward sort of guy, but some how people take that for being stupid, and seem to think they can smile off an insult. If ya think I am an asshole, fine, but really, just say it. [/color] Sighs exasperatedlyY'all come in an hmm and humph and ask innocent questions because you are just fucking curious? PLEASE. Your questions are loaded accusations, and the insulting thing is that you pretend like we are too stupid to see it. Fucking read what you say. Tosses the cards in the air and catches all of them before they fall.
Its like this see, in the scheme of things, Mr. Silky's whole legal argument aside, we all know missing one Vaulderie is not enough to take you out of good standing with the sect. We cannot all attend every vaulderie. Yet blood in a cup is what separates us from the dogs. If this were a matter of a cainite always mising a rite, it might be different, but even the code of milan accepts that the good of the sect justifies an individual missing a rite, as the interests of the sect must be protected, whatever the cost. Shuffles the cards in his hands looking at the face cards, picking a queen of hearts. So yes we cainites can, and indeed, have a duty to monitor one another. We even have a process where by we can call out a member for violating the code. My point to Statler and Waldorf was they they should either call my boy out, or shut up. They choose to remain snarky and giggle like schoolgirls with a slambook. Its annoying to me, and the "just innocently curious" excuse stinks of bullshit like a fart in the closet. So whatever they want to say about the code, about missing a vaulderie and all that shit, well fuck it. Its either a matter for the bishops, or its not. If you are going to accuse, then back up you accusations and challenge. But then you come in, Camille, and you aren't really attacking my pack mate or addressing the basic issue that statler and waldorf are commenting on. You come in to score points in the community by calling me a hypocrite. And now you stand here looking us all in the face and say you did not intend to call me a hypocrite? Fuck just don't lie. I'm an asshole, and I can take the accusation. Nut think about it, there is nothing inconsistent in saying the rite of vaulderie is what defines us, and then saying missing one vaulderie might be excusable, if there are good reasons. Its not fucking black and white. But you want to take me to the mattresses and then pretend you didn't and that fucking pisses me off. And this has nothing to do with Stacey, or what he did in the vaulderie-i'm not hyper defensive about his actions, I am hyper defensive of being called a hypocrite. Smiles wickedly. And your pretty mouth will smile brightly when you sort out that I would defend you with the same passion agaist the enemies of the sect, no matter what fighting goes on between us. We are still in a city at war, and the enemy is across the river. I don't play politics (obviously) and I keep the big picture in mind.
|
|